Who is Brooklyn Mitchell?

Taylor has “Brooklyn Mitchell” as a dependent on his tax forms, but when asked who this person is, he has no idea.

— Full court transcript bellow: —

Q On your 2012 tax return — or who’s Brooklyn Mitchell?
A Brooklyn? I don’t know.
Q You don’t remember who Brooklyn Mitchell is?
A No, mm-uh.
Q You have no idea?
A No.
Q Never heard of that person?
A No. Brooklyn Mitchell? Nope.
Q On your 2012 tax return you claimed Brooklyn Mitchell as a dependent through an exemption.
A No, I don’t think that’s true or accurate.
Q Well, this is what you gave us today.
A Yeah. Or it’s — I don’t know if it’s — that must be someone — I don’t know who that is. Michelle probably can answer that. I’m not sure about this because I don’t do my own taxes so. But I did carry them because I supported them that year so. I mean, I know I carried — supported Clifton and his wife and their children. I helped them.
Q But you have no idea who Brooklyn Mitchell is?
A No, I don’t — I don’t know that name and I don’t know why that’s there so — it could be something that I’m not aware of.
Q You wouldn’t be aware that they were one of your exemptions and dependencies?
A Well, I don’t know. I didn’t handle that so I would rather you ask her about that. Michelle.
Q Ask her about your personal tax return?
A Yes.
Q And —
A I don’t fill them out.
Q You said that Christian, Ashely, and Clifton did not live with you in 2012?
A No. Not in ’12, I don’t think. I’m not sure. I can’t — maybe my days are mixed up so I’m not accurate.
Q Well, you said it was back in ’08 and ’09, not ’12.
A I know — I know it was ’08, ’09 — I can remember those times. Yeah.
Q But you, under oath, claimed all these people as your exemptions?
A Of course.
Q Brooklyn — of course?
A Well, no, I mean, whatever happened in this was under oath and it was the truth, so, like I say, you need to go ask Michelle about this.
Q No, I mean, it’s your life. You’re — hold on.
A It may be mine, but I have somebody taking care of this part.
Q Okay. So these folks — none of those four folks lived with you in 2012?
A That’s not true.
Q And in 2013?
A I don’t — I don’t remember. I don’t know which — what I’m looking at so I can’t answer this.
Q What’s your — okay. Okay.
A I can’t answer it.
Q It’s 1040 U.S. Individual Income Tax Return 2012 —
A I know —
Q — is it not?
A Yes, I know what this is.
Q And this was given to me —
A Mm-hmm.
Q — by your attorney today.
A Okay.
Q And on it it has these four dependency exemptions, does it not?
A Yes.
Q Brooklyn, Christian, Ashley, and Clifton?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And you’re telling me you have no idea who Brooklyn Mitchell is?
A No. I — it may be a name in there — I don’t know if I know their nickname or whatever, I’m just telling you I don’t know, so I’m not going to answer anymore on that.
Q All right. So who was it that you support? What is it that you do to support these people then?
A Well, I mean, they didn’t have a job, they didn’t have nowhere to stay so I provided food and clothing, shelter, for them.
(WHEREUPON, a cell phone begins ringing.)
MS. RONAYNE: I don’t know whose phone that is.
THE WITNESS: That’s mine.
BY MS. RONAYNE:
Q So you provided to these four people food, clothing, and shelter?
A Mm-hmm.
Q You have to answer yes or no.
A Yes, mm-hmm.
Q On your salary?
A Yes.
Q And your salary is listed as $28,897.
A Yes, mm-hmm.
Q And on that salary you’re saying you supported these four people?
A Yes. 34 (Pages 130 to 133)
Q These four people?
A Yes.
Q Including Brooklyn, who you don’t know?
A Yes. I don’t — like I say, I can’t answer certain things at this time because someone takes care of my 1040. But, you know, I have money saved up, you know, so I can — I can spend that money on helping other people if I want.
Q How is the money saved up after you’re earning 28,000? Where do you get money to save up?
A Well, I save money from my paycheck so, so.
Q Is that because the ministry covers most of your overhead?
A Yeah.
Q With your allowances?
A That’s the — that’s the — that’s the blessing of non-profit ministry.
Q Is what?
A They let — allow for different allowances that even though my salary may be low, I still can have a little bit extra to help a family like that so.
Q But your allowances, like your — your car allowance and your housing allowances, those are taxable to you, aren’t they?
MR. POTTS: If he knows. He’s not an expert.
THE WITNESS: I don’t know. Yeah, I don’t know all that stuff.
BY MS. RONAYNE:
Q Do you report those on your taxes?
A I don’t know if I’m supposed to. I don’t know.
Q You have no idea? Well, you signed —
A I have other people handle this for me.
Q But you sign your tax returns, don’t you?
A I have to, don’t I? I think, yeah.
Q Okay. And you sign them and you’re not sure of what they mean?
A Not so much. I have professional people who know what they’re doing so.
Q Who would the professional people be?
A I don’t know, you can ask Michelle.
Q She knows who prepares your taxes?
A Yes.
Q Do you keep receipts for all the expenditures that you say you have for these folks? These followers?
A I’m not sure. I’m not positive.
Q When you give them support, do you give them cash?
A I have helped them with cash before, but nothing large, no.
Q Do you pay their rent?
A Pay their rent? I mean, they were living with me, so I —
Q Not in 2012 you say or ’13, that was in ’08 and ’09.
A No, I don’t pay their rent. No.
Q So you don’t pay their rent.
A Mm-uh.
Q Do you give them a check for some funds?
A No.
Q No check?
A Mm-uh.
Q No check, cash, but not large amounts, you don’t pay their rent. Do you buy them food?
A Yes, mm-hmm.
Q When do you buy food? How does that work? Do you give them money or do you go out and do their grocery shopping?
A No, I just give them money.
Q Cash?
A My card. Bank card.
Q Credit cards?
A Banking, debit card or — you know, but when are you saying I do this because I don’t do this now.
Q Well, this was 2012 and 2013.
A Okay. You keep asking me for those years.
Q Right.
A You’re asking —
Q When you claimed them.
A Yeah, well, that’s probably the way I did it when I did do it.
Q That’s probably the way you did it?
A Maybe. I have cash. I have debit — debit card.
Q You would hand them your debit card?
A Yeah.
Q To go spend?
A Yeah.
Q Okay. And how much do you think they used on your debit card?
A I don’t know.
Q Was it your personal debit card or JMMI’s?
A Most likely it was my personal card.
Q Most likely, but maybe not?
A Yes. No, I think it was my personal card.
Q Not JMMI’s?
A Mm-uh.
Q You have to answer yes or no.
A The only time they used JMMI card is on ministry business, and they were handling a lot of ministry business so that’s separate.
Q So were they being given money from the ministry’s debit card if they were doing ministry business?
A Yeah, of course. And any time any volunteer does anything on the ministry business, you know, they are able to — like if they are going out of town, whatever, they’re able to buy food because the ministry takes care of all those expenses. It’s normal.
Q So the ministry does but not you personally?
A Like I said, on ministry business, that’s when the card is used.
Q Okay.
A When it’s something personal, I’ve helped them with my own money.
Q So are you saying that you provided more than 50 percent of the support for these four people?
A I — yeah, of course. I mean, they didn’t have nowhere to stay, nothing —
Q But you didn’t pay their rent? Do you know where they were living?
A Pay their rent? What are you saying?
Q I asked you if you paid their rent and you said no.
A No, I mean, they live with me, right. Are you talking about the times that they live with me?
Q I’m only talking about ’12 and ’13?
A Oh, okay. No, no, of course not. I don’t —
Q Of course not, what?
A I don’t — I didn’t pay their rent —
Q Okay.
A — from my —
Q But to claim them you have to provide a certain level of support. So are you saying that you spent or — I’m sorry — that you supported them in more than 50 percent of their expenses?
A It has to be if it’s on that thing.
Q But you can’t tell me how or anything about it?
A Yeah, I don’t handle all those things anymore. I’m — I’m totally out of that, so I would rather you ask someone who knows. I’d rather just say to you I don’t know so there’s no proprietorship of me —
MR. POTTS: There’s a tax preparer name on the return.
BY MS. RONAYNE:
Q Okay. But what I’m — what I’m trying to figure out — and I don’t want to depose him. I want to just get a handle on this. You’re saying that this is not JMMI expenditures?
A Mm-hmm.
Q These are personal expenditures that you personally —
A No.
Q Let me finish. That you personally paid more than 50 percent of their support?
A Mm-hmm.
Q So you claimed them as exemptions but you can’t tell me how?
A Actually, I will like to say I don’t know, ask Michelle. That’s all I will —
Q She would know what you spent daily on these folks?
A They will know because they handle all my personal and ministry stuff.
Q Who’s they, when you say they?
A Well, I mean, Michelle handles all personal and ministry so.
Q How much have you personally donated to JMMI in the last five years?
MR. POTTS: If you know.
BY MS. RONAYNE:
Q Approximately, that’s okay.
A I don’t — I don’t really know. Yeah, I can’t say, from all the sacrifices I can’t say.
Q What does that mean from all the sacrifices?
A I mean, the sacrifices of, you know, giving up things.
Q No, no. I’m talking about financially, not —
A Oh, no.
MR. POTTS: Money.
THE WITNESS: So — no, I can’t tell you.
BY MS. RONAYNE:
Q But you do tell people how much you’ve given, don’t you?
A I have told them the sacrifices I’ve made.
Q You put a dollar amount on that, haven’t you?
A Oh, sometimes I — I’ve given up — yes, I’ve told them that over years I have given a large sum of money to this ministry.
Q Okay. So what sum of money do you say when you do that?
A Well, you said in dollar amount. I’m talking about sacrifices.
Q No, you put a dollar amount on it when you talk.
A I know, because it is a dollar amount.
Q Okay. So, then, tell me what dollar amount you use when you tell people?
A Oh, millions. I’ve given up millions for this.
Q Given up —
A Sacrifices.
Q — or — oh, only in sacrifice?
A In sacrifice, yes.
Q Millions?
A Yes.
Q How do you arrive at that figure?
A Well, I mean, from the opportunities I’ve had to do other things and that kind of thing.
Q That would have paid you over a million — that would have paid you millions?
A Way more than millions.
Q Really?
A Yes, of course.
Q What kinds of things would those be?
A Well, for number one, I’m a chef. I completed my — in college, a degree, and so I could, number one, have my own business, like my brother, who’s a chef, does, and that alone could bring —
Q Is he a millionaire?
A No, but —
Q Chef’s usually aren’t.
A That’s if they don’t write books and do multiple chains. There’s a way you can do it where I know a lot of my friends can have different —
Q But you said you’ve said — you used the word donate, you haven’t used the word sacrifice. When you’re talking on your —
A well, that’s what I —
Q Wait, let me finish.
A Okay.
Q When you’re talking on your radio or your conference call or up on stage, you say, “I have donated millions to JMMI.”
A That’s right.
Q But you’re not talking dollar amount?
A No. And the people know what I’m talking about.
Q Oh, you think they understand?
A Oh, because I’ve explained, of course. You can’t just listen to one show that I do and expect to understand what I’m saying if you don’t follow —
Q Well, I’ve listened to more than one show.
A Well, you’ve got to listen to more than three, four, 20 or a hundred to hear everything, yeah.
Q The JMMI contribution report for 2013 shows that you donated $42,000 to JMMI in 2013. Is that true?
A If that’s what the report says.
Q How can you donate more than you actually have made in the last several years after a bankruptcy?
A Because in this kind of ministry people will walk up to me and want to give me personal gifts of this amount of money and I give it over to the ministry instead of receiving it, and I have them write it out to the ministry instead of me.
Q So you’re saying that if — isn’t that a double dip if you’re saying that people go up and give you money and you say write it to the ministry, and then you get credit for that donation as does the person who made it?
A Well, you know, that’s my personal way of showing also contribution. But people who want to give me money personally for my life and I just tell them to give it to the ministry.
Q Do you report that as gift income to you?
A No, because I tell them to write it out to the ministry.
Q So how do you come up with $42,000 that you donated when it didn’t come from you, it came from a third-party?
A Well, we use those records to show. But I am, you know, besides my ties and offerings that I give out of my paycheck to show just, kind of what, is being given to me on a yearly basis or presented to me actually. So, you know, sometimes it’s higher or lower but —
Q Do people come up and give you cash?
A No.
Q Never cash?
A No.
Q Do they write a check out to you, David Taylor?
A They have, but I don’t receive it. I tell them to scratch it out and write it in the ministry’s name.
Q But then you get credit for the $42,000?
A To show that I — I channel that money there instead of to myself.
Q So you’re saying you don’t accept cash?
A No.
Q If somebody were to give cash who would it go to?
A JMMI.
Q Personally? I mean —
A JMMI.
Q But who?
A The offering bucket. Offering place. I don’t —
Q Well, if somebody’s going to give you $5,000 in cash, who would that be handed to?
A The people who take up the money and count the money, and that could be anybody.
Q What if it wasn’t — do you think — I’m not talking about somebody putting in a donation bucket.
A Yeah.
Q I’m talking about somebody who’s got $5,000 cash and they want to give it to JMMI. Who would be the person that would be designated to receive that kind of donation?
A Well, our financial committee, Michele is over that so you could just say her. Her.
Q So Michelle would be who was designated to receive cash donations of a large amount?
A Yeah, to put it in the ministry. Yeah. That’s really — I don’t know how to answer that question.
Q Why?
A I really don’t, because mostly it don’t — people don’t give like that. They give in to the offering plate. They never give it to us personally. They give in to our envelopes and they — or if they’re going to put cash, they give it in the bucket. So, honestly, I think we should scratch that. We’ve never received money like that. The money we receive comes through donation plates, and then it’s taken in the back and counted and deposited in the ministry.
Q So it would have to be at a service?
A Yes.
Q So when Debbie gave you a couple — you know, 1.2 million or wherever we are on that, she did it at a service?
A I don’t — I don’t recall. I’m not quite sure when — I know she gave a wire.
Q Yeah.
A What I know it’s a wire so.
Q A wire transfer?
A Yeah. And people —
Q So how —
A People do that all the time in our ministry.
Q So how would that be that that would be set up? Who would be doing that at your ministry?
A I know Michelle is over that.
Q So did you talk to Debbie about this wire transfer?
A No, Michelle.
Q You had no conversation with Debbie about that?
A No.
Q Did you ever request or in any way talk to Debbie about contributions to the ministry?
A No. I mean, I talk to everybody who comes to the meeting about that, so that will be yes.
Q Well, other than at the general meeting, did you have any smaller group conversations with her about money?
A Really, no.
Q None?
A No, not that I know of. Other than when she had already given money and that she wanted to give so I had Michelle finish up talking to her about that.
Q So you did talk to her after she had given money?
A Yeah, mm-hmm. I wanted to know what was going on and so Michelle filled me in and I talked with her briefly, you know.
Q So what did Michelle tell you?
A Just that she wanted to donate and that she had given the wire and that kind of thing.
Q And so, then, you talked to Debbie?
A Yeah.
Q And what did you say to Debbie?
A I just told her thank you and I was — I did, you know, the ministry would appreciate that.
Q Did you inquire of her the source of those funds?
A No, because I never usually do that when people give money like that.
Q Would it be a concern to you if it meant that she was ultimately going to be homeless in the next year? Would it be a concern to you?
A Of course, I would never have allowed that. I didn’t find out until afterwards.
Q What did you find out?
A I just — what you was telling me, you know (indicating).
Q What Mr. Potts shared with you?
A Mm-hmm, right.
Q Anybody else?
A Rick, of course, came up to me in the first court proceedings and started saying stuff like that but I didn’t believe him because of his kind of spirited character, yeah, so I didn’t really take nothing he said true. But when Mr. Potts shared with me certain things because I did — I saw this whatever had happened.
Q And what was your understanding of what had happened?
A That she had donated a large sum and she gave a lot of money that she didn’t really — a lot of it she didn’t have to give. I mean, besides the stuff she has to pay for.
Q I’m sorry. Say that again.
A I said that I found out that she gave a lot of her money that she didn’t have to give, she couldn’t afford a lot of that.
Q Did Debbie ever talk to you about her finances?
A No. That’s the thing, I —
Q Did she ever talk to Michelle, if you know?
A No.
Q Did you have any understanding of what her financial wherewithal was?
A No, I sure didn’t.
Q Do you understand there’s a court order that says she can’t give any money to JMMI or any other —
MR. POTTS: If you know.
MS. RONAYNE: I said did you know.
THE WITNESS: No.
BY MS. RONAYNE: 38
Q You are aware of the court order?
A No.
Q The court order says she can’t give you any money.
A No, that’s just what’s —
Q No, it’s been in effect for a long time.
A Okay. No, I didn’t know that.
Q Okay. She didn’t tell you that?
A No.
Q Did Debbie tell you that she was not seeing her children or severely cut back seeing her children based on her finances?
A No.
Q She didn’t share anything about that with you?
A The only thing I found out through Michelle, that she had told Michelle is just that what her ex-husband was doing to her.
Q And what was that?
A Well, basically trying — just keeping her from the children, took them with a written order.
Q You understand he can’t do that personally but the court has to issue orders?
MR. POTTS: Irrelevant.
THE WITNESS: (Inaudible).
MS. RONAYNE: Well —
MR. POTTS: Who cares. That’s —
MS. RONAYNE: No, I want his understanding.
MR. POTTS: For what purpose?
MS. RONAYNE: So that Debbie doesn’t repeat —
MR. POTTS: Debbie’s not on trial here.
MS. RONAYNE: No. He said —
MR. POTTS: He’s not on trial here.
MS. RONAYNE: It’s not about trial.
MR. POTTS: What’s it for?
BY MS. RONAYNE:
Q Do you understand there are court orders issued from the Judge about Debbie’s parenting time?
MR. POTTS: If you know.
THE WITNESS: No, I don’t. I’m not involved in that.
BY MS. RONAYNE:
Q So you were led to believe that somehow her ex-husband Rick is doing this?
A Yeah.
Q Okay. Did Debbie ever tell you that she had violated court orders?
A No, I don’t know.
Q She didn’t tell you anything about that?
A No.
Q Do you know if she told Michelle?
A I don’t know. You can ask Michelle.
Q All right. Given — and you understand that Mrs. Frazier cashed out about $600,000 in retirement assets that generated a very significant IRS bill? Are you aware of that?
A No. After he told me.
Q You weren’t aware of it before then?
A No, of course not.
Q But you’re now aware that she’s got a big IRS bill?
A Yeah, I would never have let her give that if I knew that.
Q Were you aware at one time she owned her house free and clear?
A No.
Q Are you aware that because she’s given everything else away that she now has a significant mortgage that means she doesn’t have any equity in her house anymore?
A I think I heard from Mr. Potts or Michelle, one, that she’s, I guess, got a lot of credit off her home to pay lawyers through what the situation that her ex-husband has taken up. So that’s — that’s all I know about that.
Q Do you know she also had to pay taxes, though, on these?
A Yeah, I would never have let her give that to the ministry if I had known she’d pay taxes. I teach people to pay taxes, pay their taxes to the government so.
Q That’s one of your tenants?
A Hmm?
Q That’s one of your tenants, to pay your taxes?
A Yes, mm-hmm.
Q Would you accept any more money from Debbie Frazier?
A No.
Q You would not?
A No.
Q Going forward?
A Right.
Q Have you told her that?
A Of course. I mean, since I found this out I had a phone conversation and just told her, you know, to — I just asked her why she didn’t tell us, you know, all of these things.
Q And what’d she say?
A She just felt like she didn’t feel like she needed to tell me anything. She just felt led to give the money so.
Q So you called her on her cell phone or house phone?
A No. I had my — Michelle called her for me and patched me in.
Q Okay. So you and Michelle were sort of on a conference call with her?
A Yeah, mm-hmm.
Q Okay.
A Just recently.
Q When would that have been?
A Maybe in the last week or two, something like that.
Q So you had a conversation where you told Debbie you’re not going to take any more money from her?
A Yeah. Well, I don’t think I worded it like that, but I told her that she shouldn’t have — she should have communicated better with her financial situation and if she had bills to pay, like the IRS and things like that, I wouldn’t have never taken the money in the first place if I had known that information. Especially that I’m now — even if she wanted to donate, I would have told her don’t give this amount, you need to keep some for your life and that kind of thing.
Q So if —
A I don’t get involved in all of our contributors’ life like that.
Q But when somebody gives you like a really big number, like over a million dollars, you don’t say to them, “Can you afford this?”
A I really haven’t done that because I think it probably would be wise now for this to start doing that. But usually people who are giving are very responsible and they can do it, you know, so I — you know, caught me totally off guard.
Q Do you realize there are court orders telling Debbie Frazier that she cannot bring her children to St. Louis and participate in JMMI ministries?
A I heard about that. Michelle told me about that.
Q When was that?
A That was some time ago, I can’t tell you when exactly.
Q Ballpark it. This year? Last — give me —
MR. POTTS: Don’t guess.
BY MS. RONAYNE:
Q Just a ballpark.
A I just don’t know.
Q So you’re aware that she can’t bring the children to JMMI?
A Yeah.
Q And since you became aware of that, has she brought them?
A No, I haven’t seen them around at all.
Q Did you meet with the children?
A Meet with them? What do you mean?
Q Did you have conversations with them?
MR. POTTS: Ever.
THE WITNESS: Oh, yeah. They came to the church so, yeah, at — at the church, say hello and —
BY MS. RONAYNE:
Q What else? What was the conversation?
A That’s about it, just hello and just greeting them like I’ve greeted others.
Q Did you talk to them about face-to-face visits with Jesus?
A In a meeting?
Q No. With them?
A No.
Q No?
A Mm-uh.
Q You have to answer yes or no.
A No.
Q Did you give them any of your books or DVDs?
A No.
Q Did somebody else, if you know, from your ministry maybe?
A I don’t know what to say.
Q Given that — that Debbie is basically destitute, you understand that?
A (Indicating).
Q You have to answer yes or no.
A Yes, mm-hmm.
Q Okay.
MR. POTTS: Is that an assumption for the question he doesn’t know that except what you tell him what happened.
MS. RONAYNE: Right.
BY MS. RONAYNE:
Q Given that you understand from —
MR. POTTS: Given this is separate — okay.
BY MS. RONAYNE:
Q — us, would those be circumstances under which you would be willing to give Mrs. Frazier back some of her money?
MR. POTTS: Object to the form of the question.
BY MS. RONAYNE:
Q Go ahead.
A Say that again.
MR. POTTS: Excuse me.
BY MS. RONAYNE:
Q Given that you understand Mrs. Frazier to be destitute and it’s impacted her ability to have housing, her ability to see her children, under those circumstances, are you willing to give Mrs. Frazier back some of her money?
THE WITNESS: Should I answer this?
MR. POTTS: Yes, you can go ahead and answer.
THE WITNESS: Yes. You know, I’m sure that with the board — I took what he told me back to the board concerning her present circumstance and I would love to do that if we have the money, presently we don’t. But I told them that I’m willing to — if the money comes in through what we raise to support and help her, of course.
BY MS. RONAYNE:
Q So would that mean you would give her a check back for some of the funds that she had given?
A I don’t know how we would do it, but I will find out the legal right way to do that and — and issue her that.
Q Those funds? Issue those funds —
A Yeah.
Q — to her?
MR. POTTS: Objection, form of the question. First of all, he’s going to require guidance professionally —
MS. RONAYNE: I understand that.
MR. POTTS: — on how he can, should otherwise collect the source. So the concept is fine to talk about specifics. He certainly —
MS. RONAYNE: I’m not asking him to —
MR. POTTS: — isn’t qualified to answer those kinds of questions.
THE WITNESS: Right.
BY MS. RONAYNE:
Q Has Debbie talked about relocating to St. Louis recently with anyone that you know?
A Not that I know of.
Q Has anybody talked to you about her oldest daughter going to college there?
A No.
Q Katie? Do you know if she’s talked to Michelle about that?
A I’m not sure.
Q Are you aware that Debbie refers to JMMI in the presence of the children as their second family?
A No.
Q Are you aware that Debbie had people from JMMI staying at her residence for overnight at least some period of time?
A Yes, I did know. I had heard about that.
Q What had you heard?
A Just that whatever — have some come from St. Louis in town that she let them stay there for a day or two.
Q Do you know how many people it would be at any given time?
A Just one from what I knew.
Q And that were the times, you understand, that at times it would be when her children were having parenting time with her, back when that was allowed?
A No.
Q You didn’t know that?
A No.
Q Now, when you came into town there were times whether or not that you used Deborah Frazier’s vehicle? Or someone that was driving you used Deborah Frazier’s vehicle?
A Maybe, I don’t know. I wasn’t aware.
Q You weren’t aware of whose car you were driving?
A No. We rent cars when I come in so if they switched up the cars I wouldn’t know or — I’m just going for the ride wherever they take me.
Q You have no input about any of that?
A I don’t handle that.
Q So you wouldn’t recognize that you were repeatedly driven in the car that was owned by — the same car that was owned by Debbie Frazier?
A Well, I know what her car looks like now. But what I’m saying is during those times I didn’t know. We rent cars when I come to town. They rent the cars for me.
Q Did you think it was always the same car that got rented?
A It was usually different —
Q Right.
A — you know, but they usually rent the same kind of car, too, so.
Q So you didn’t realize it was rather regularly just Debbie’s car?
A Because I — I was never in that car regularly.
Q Did she ever drive you around?
A No.
Q When you say it’s up to the board, now the board includes Michelle?
A Yes.
Q You?
A Yes
Q And who else?
A I’m not sure. You can ask Michelle.
Q You don’t know who’s on the board?
A Totally I would rather you get the accurate information because I don’t want to be accused of answering falsely like I have been other times when I’ve tried to guess. So I just you’d rather — I’m telling you I don’t know, just ask her.
Q How many people are on the board?
A I don’t know. Just —
Q You don’t know?
A No.
Q Don’t you have to have board meetings?
A Yes, we do have board meetings.
Q So can’t you count around the table how many people there are?
A Well, our board also grows at the same time. So I just rather you just get that information from her.
Q The last time you had a board meeting was when?
A I was on the phone, I think the beginning — it was in the beginning of the year in January. I can’t exactly tell the date, but —
Q It was on the phone?
A Yeah.
Q How did you meet Deborah Frazier?
A She came to the meetings that we hold in —
Q In Taylor?
A — Taylor church.
Q When Deborah Frazier volunteers, do you pay her travel costs when she comes to St. Louis?
A No.
Q No?
A No.
Q She’s on her own?
A Yeah.
Q So if she said that she was being reimbursed for that, would you say that’s not accurate?
A If she says she’s being reimbursed, then I — I don’t know what’s going on there. I don’t handle that part of the ministry.
Q But your understanding is she’s not?
A From what I know — I — I really wouldn’t like to answer that, I’d just rather say I don’t know.
Q But other people, you do reimburse and assist them with their costs, right?
A Of course, but I don’t always know who that is. I don’t handle that part of the ministry.
Q All right. So would that be something that Debbie Frazier would be eligible for?
A Of course.
Q And if you knew she didn’t have any personal money or it was taking away from her ability to support herself, would that be something you would provide for her?
A Of course.
Q Would you provide her with lodging in St. Louis?
A Of course.
Q How would you do that?
A Well, just like we provide that for others, you know, who — if they’re on a ministry trip, that’s if they’re under the ministry (inaudible) take care of their expenses.
Q So if Debbie Frazier moved to St. Louis would you pay for her residence there?
A No, we don’t do that. I won’t pay for anybody’s residence to move. They have to get a job or, you know, if they’re going to relocate, that’s not our responsibility, the ministry encourages that.
Q But it was for — you said for the Ware Family?
A No, it wasn’t. They just — they didn’t have nowhere to stay for a few days or however long we were helping them. But then I found out they didn’t have a place to stay so I — I opened up my home to their family.
Q And you had never met those folks before?
A Well, it wasn’t that. They had been in the ministry for a little time. We got a chance to know them so.
Q How would they have been in the ministry?
A We —
Q They lived somewhere else?
A Yeah. They came down and was active for maybe a few months and we got a chance to know them a little bit.
Q And then they came and you supported them?
A Yes.
Q You stated in your last deposition that you would like to hire Mrs. Frazier?
A Mm-hmm.
Q You have to answer yes or no.
A Yes, mm-hmm.
Q Have you explored that?
A Explore? What do you mean by explore?
Q Explored whether you’re going to hire her?
A What do you mean by explore? What — can you rephrase.
Q Well, you said that you would like to hire her. So have you done anything about that?
A Not at this time. We haven’t added anybody on yet. We have to wait until the finances is there for that kind of thing.
Q So when somebody gives you 1.2 million, where does that money go? To what?
A It goes to ministry operations.
Q So for the running of JMMI?
A Mm-hmm.
Q You have to answer yes or no.
A Yes, mm-hmm.
Q So who has been on the JMMI payroll in the last 90 days?
A Michelle Brannon is really the only one on the salary payroll, and myself at this time.
Q Just the two of you?
A Mm-hmm.
Q You have to answer yes or no.
A Yes, mm-hmm.
Q Do you have a former or current FBI agent associated with JMMI now?
A No.
Q Has there been?
A No.
Q You never had anybody with the FBI involved?
A No.
Q At one point your mother and father were on the JMMI Board of Directors?
A Mm-hmm.
Q You have to answer yes.
A Yes, mm-hmm.
Q Okay. And you recall that time period?
A I think it was — you know, I don’t remember. I know it was a few years ago, so I think — I’m not quite sure.
Q Then they resigned, did they not?
A No, they didn’t resign.
Q They didn’t resign?
A No.
Q You filed paperwork showing they resigned?
A No. It shouldn’t say resignation.
Q And then in 30 days they were back on the board?
A No.
Q You don’t recall that?
A No.
Q They were on, they were off, they were on, and aren’t they off now?
A No. Yeah, they’re off. But the way you were saying this isn’t the way things happened, no.
Q What did they — did they receive compensation?
A No.
Q They weren’t paid at all?
A No.
Q Are they both living?
A Yes.
Page 164
Q What are their names?
A Katie and James Taylor.
Q K-a —
A K-a-t-e.
Q K-a-t-e, not Kate?
A Katie.
Q K-a-t-e and you call her —
A T-i-e. I’m sorry.
Q Okay. And James?
A Taylor, mm-hmm.
Q And where do they reside?
A Memphis, Tennessee.
Q Is James Taylor the same one that prepares your tax returns?
A Mm-hmm.
Q He’s your father?
A Mm-hmm. He has an income tax business.
Q Oh, so your father’s prepared your taxes?
A Well, not now. He did at one time. We had him doing that because he has a very integral business, it’s been around for over 30 years.
Q So when your dad did your taxes, 2012, just a couple of years ago, and he’s listed as the tax preparer —
A Yes, mm-hmm.